January 3, 2008
I’ve officially started my house visits. It’s kind of cool, much easier than it would be in the States, I guess its because people really don’t have an “inside” of their house here haha. People here are really nice here though, especially once they realize I’m not an outside gringo haha. Although, it also helped that the power was out for 12 hours today, haha, people had to talk to me. Anyways, it was good, they all like to talk about the same things as other Salvadorans, so that made it easier for me to talk because I know those Spanish words haha.
It was fun having the power out today, but unfortunately it came on right before I got back to my house after dinner. I actually bought some candles waiting on this to happen during the windy season. It’s crazy, the wind here is ridiculous this week. Ripping off roofs, taking down power lines, there were four fallen banana trees crossing the walk to the latrine this morning. I also need to tie down some of the metal on my roof… it smacks up and down all night with an obnoxiously loud sound. Also, I spent about an hour this evening filling the spaces around my two ‘windows’ near my desk with newspaper to try and keep all the crud from blowing in (and that so the kid next door can’t yell at me through the cracks :)
I got a Christmas package from the parents today, and some other little things yesterday, so that was good, I got some snack food now….haha.
I started the Simon Bolivar book today, although, I’ve had to review my Latin America History class notes on the computer to get a footing on what the background was.
Going to the capital tomorrow…wahoo.
Here we have Dante being quizzed on his faith by St. Peter near the end:
“On hearing that light breathe, ‘Good Christian, speak,
Show yourself clearly: what is faith?’….
Then I: ‘So may the Grace that grants to me
to make confession to the Chief Centurion [Peter]
permit my thoughts to find their fit expression’;
and followed, ‘Father, as the truthful pen
of your dear brother [Paul] wrote—that brother who,
with you, set Rome upon the righteous road—
faith is the substance of the things we hope for
and is the evidence of things not seen;….”
Canto XXIV, Paradiso
This definition of faith is a little different from what people consider it today, yet its better. When the word faith remained undivided, but with two natures. Ha, ironic.
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11 comments:
Do you think the definition of the word "faith" has changed for believers, for just for the public? I don't see how it could have changed for those who believe.
Just curious.
I agree with you, Cari. It will be interesting to read what you think, Rhett. Stay safe. Sandra
B16 Recently commented on this in Spe Salvi
From Paragraph 7
The concept of “substance” is therefore modified in the sense that through faith, in a tentative way, or as we might say “in embryo”—and thus according to the “substance”—there are already present in us the things that are hoped for: the whole, true life.
[This faith leads to a substantive change in the individual soul.]
B16 continues...
To Luther, who was not particularly fond of the Letter to the Hebrews, the concept of “substance”, in the context of his view of faith, meant nothing. For this reason he understood the term hypostasis/substance not in the objective sense (of a reality present within us), but in the subjective sense, as an expression of an interior attitude.
Faith is not merely a personal reaching out towards things to come that are still totally absent: it gives us something. It gives us even now something of the reality we are waiting for...
I assume what Rhett is getting at is the transformative versus "covering over" concepts of grace?
Beer is good.
Ha! People are alive! Edward, well timed sir, well timed.
Well, actually John, while agreeing with what you quoted, even though most people will go cross-eyed before that makes any sense...including me the first goround, imputing vs. infusing wasn't actually my focus here....although let it be known that I do approve of his allusion to us as dunghills covered by snow...Colossians has its place, but not in this sense :)
My point was though, that yes, I think publically and religiously the definition of "faith" has changed. When one says he is saved by 'faith alone', I imagine that he is saying that there is nothing that a person can do that affects his salvation... nor anything he can do to lose it (even though Prots are split on that second part). The word 'alone' implies/begs a separation of 'works' from the concept of 'faith'.
My implication with this quote, was that in the past, 'faith' was considered the substance, your invisible belief/hope, and its evidence from that invisible hope. The visible/invisible kinds of ideas that we Catholics always talk about within the Eucharist, the Church, Faith, etc... the sacramental principle. A single coin with two sides as I've mentioned before.
If "faith alone" still reflected what I propose as the original definition of "faith", then no Catholics would have any problem with salvation in the context of 'sola fide'. (cf. early Church Fathers on the idea of Salvation and def of 'faith'... they portray both sides of the coin as well)
This also opens the door to how you interpret "faith" and "belief" in the Gospels and Epistles. When it is said "Go, your faith has saved you" or other similar passages, it is always on the heels of an act of faith by the person towards Hope/Truth, Christ. The hope in them and its incarnation. I think this definition helps take in the totality of the NT as well...Romans and James.
So yes Cari, in my personal opinion, the rift in Christianity since the Reformation has caused us to formulate a different definition of the word 'faith'.
We all know this issue is much, much more complicated, but my purpose was to point out a really simple definition by Dante of 'faith', and to make a joke alluding to Christ's nature in that he was one man, with two natures. NOBODY commented on my joke though!
These fit well into our convo...in accordance to the Gospels and Romans and James:
St. Clement of Alexandria circa 190 AD
-“So that when we hear, ‘Your faith has saved you’ (Mt. 9:22; Mk 5:34; Luke 8:48), we do not understand Him to say absolutely that those who have believed in any way whatever shall be saved, unless also works follow.”
-Stromata, Bk. 6, Chap. 14
St. John Chrysostom circa 390 AD
-“ ‘Who believes in the Son, has eternal life’ (Jn. 3:36)… ‘Is it then enough,’ says one, ‘to believe on the Son, that one may have eternal life?’ By no means. And hear Christ Himself declaring this, and saying, ‘Not every one that says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven’ (Mt. 7:21); and the blasphemy against the Spirit is enough of itself to cast a man into hell. But why speak I of a portion of doctrine? Though a man believe rightly on the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, yet if he lead not a right life, his faith will avail nothing towards his salvation.
-Homilies on St. John, 31:1
This is a good one that represents the people involved.
St. Augustine (410AD)
-“If, however, being already regenerate (John) and justified (Cari), he relapses of his own will into an evil life, assuredly he cannot say, ‘I have not received,’ because of his own free choice to evil he has lost the grace of God (Rhett haha), that he had received.”
-On Rebuke and Grace, Chap. 6:9
The last two are nice simple ways of putting things.
St. Gregory (late 4th Century)
-“For faith without works of justice is not sufficient for salvation. Neither however, is righteous living secure in itself of salvation if it is disjoined from faith.”
-Jergens 10:24
St. Gregory the Great circa 600
-“Neither faith without works, or works without faith, is of any avail.”
-Jergens 23:27
Rhett, I think most protestants would agree with your definition of Faith. The problem is that we believe Faith comes first. It must. The Bible tells us that we are incapable of doing good by ourselves. (Romans 3:10;7:18) The good works we are capable of doing spring from the Faith.
And yes, I believe that it leads to a more complicated discussion of "faith" and "belief" and even Lordship. As you said, knowing the facts are not enough. Even the demons believe that Christ is the Son. They know rightly His title and His power. Yet, they are clearly not saved.
I leave you with Romans 10:8
But what does it [righteousness] say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
I respect the gesture, from your first sentence of suggested agreement from Protestants on this unified definition of faith, but the Truth is your second sentence still implies the separation (of their purpose), and therein lays our difference. “We believe Faith comes first”….. comes first before what? I’m certain you mean before works, which betrays the definition I threw out there as a single Faith term…our ‘faith working through love.’ (Gal 5:2-10) A simple belief itself cannot ‘work.’ When I propose a single term, ‘faith’, I see it as Christ giving us a 50 cent piece as our entrance ticket to heaven. However, I believe that many people have split this one piece into two quarters, and try and use one quarter as their down payment on heaven (check out all the perseveres and endures in the concordance).
A good example shows itself in Luke 44:50, in the store of the woman who washes Jesus’ feet with what she has and all that jazz and then he forgives her sins and tells her to go for her faith has saved her. An awesome story if taken in its entirety, but this is more than just a belief as even Jesus himself points out to the host in the passage that he forgave her sins because she fully expressed her belief through love. Now juxtapose this situation with Matthew 19:16-30 where we see someone saying that they believe, and have kept the necessary commandments (Jesus’ answer on how to receive eternal life), but when challenged further, the man buckles and Christ expands on the difficulty of entering the pearly gates.
Whereas you are very correct on the verses that demand our also our free response of faith (through the intellect) to the grace of God, it’s essential…we cannot forget the constant call to ‘enduring to the end to be saved’ throughout the Gospels (Matt 10:22) and the ‘perseverance’ talks of Paul... our free response of love(action of the will) to this grace. There’s ample room for both sides, people just need to realize they are inseparable and necessary… and not two quarters :)
Acts 15:11
“…we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus…”
Peter at the Council of Jerusalem
“God created us without our cooperation, but he has willed to save us only with our cooperation.” (St. Augustine, Serm, 169, 13)
Council of Trent, Canon I: If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.
You raise an interesting question with demons. It is often said that the devil is the best bible scholar everrrrr (in a Jim Gaffigan voice for my bro and sis), we see in James 2 (interesting chapter by the way) where it says ‘even the demons believe.’
Why is it that they aren’t saved then?
Wow, it's getting deep in here. I always like to think that God wants all of us. Classically, the soul is defined as the intellect and the will. Faith is an intellectual assent, and love is an act of the will. Will we choose God, to love him continually? He is ever faithful, but are we?
In John 14:15 Jesus says, "If you love me, you will obey what I command." In James we see that the 'works' are along with and complete the faith.
I think most people would agree with this. I think the main problem is one of perception. As a Catholic I am asked if since I believe in Faith and Works does that mean I think I have to do something to earn my salvation. The real question is do I think I can do something to lose my salvation.
No Catholic thinks he can earn anything, but every Catholic is taught that if he sins and severs his relationship with God, he can loose his salvation unless he repents. See 1 John 5: 16-17 for the teaching on sins that lead to death.
I believe that through sin, which is ultimately a failure of love I can choose my self, others or material things against God. To do so willingly, I can freely choose to severe our relationship.
It's not about earning anything. It is about being faithful in a loving relationship. Faith working through love.
just want to say oops on the earlier slip up that I agree with the dung hill analogy of Luther... i kind of forgot the word not... do not.... haha
For Edward:
http://catholic-beer-review.blogspot.com/
Happy Brewing...
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